Curse

Miss Innocent · May 12, 2006, 08:46 AM // 08:46

One of the things I liked about Guild Wars was that, although it had a cool story somewhere in there (there was a story right?), I didn't have to play through it when making characters #5,6,7.....

The point is that I found it very convenient that I could skip the vast majority of the early game (roughly things between Lion's Arch and the desert) to go ahead and get to the later part of the game.

I am so disappointed in Factions in this respect. I can't skip a mission I've done several other times (can't the doors become "unlocked?"), and I can't just hurry along my other characters. While I always found level 10 characters in the Ascalon arena that had Droknar's Armor and elite skills annoying, I also liked rushing my own characters as much as possible (my most recent addition, Pink Gal, ascended when she was only 14 or 15; she was level 19 after getting 50K).

Factions isn't fun when you're stuck grinding through the missions for SO long when all you really want to do is get to the late game PvP.

On a related note, there really isn't anything to do but the missions until you get to the PvP. The arena isn't really populated well, and there's, like, nothing but missions forever, and you can't even go do just the ones that are fun.

I am happy that the annoyingly hard first mission on the main island (Foreign Quarter and Local Quarter), isn't as hard as it used to be. I think I wasted many long hours just trying to complete that darned thing.

bilateralrope · May 12, 2006, 10:06 AM // 10:06

I actually like Factions method of blocking runners, mainly because I've run accross too many people in high level areas that couldn't play that class because they haven't had it long enough to learn that they need to play it differently to a warrior. Sure, there are some who do know how to play with a character they got ran, but there are too many that dont.

Or the players that are low level (I've seen as low as level 5 in THK, level 8 at ember light camp) in THK and therefore dont have enough attribute points or hp to be useful, but keep spamming that they want a group.

I've also seen one person in Denravi that was looking for someone to run him to riverside for at least an hour, when it is henchable in about 20 mins. Not to mention so many people going "LFR to next mission". I despise people who dont even play through on their first time even more than those who skipped the areas that force them to learn how one class plays differently to another

In factions currently everyone is level 20 by Nahpui at the furthest, and no one below level 17 after Vizunah Square. Lets see how many teams will tolerate a low level player being sprung on them there without warning, and how many will leave instead and hope for a team without a useless character (due to lack of attribute points, if not lack of skill as well).

I'm willing to put up with being unable to run my characters through factions for the benifit that stopping those people infesting the mid to high level (enemy level, not player level) areas.

samifly · May 12, 2006, 10:27 AM // 10:27

You'll still find those people even with the gates though. Stupid people are just stupid, and no matter how you lock something up they will get by anyways. It just hurts the explorers. I for one am dreading doing every single quest for all 8 of my characters.

Alya · May 12, 2006, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Bilateralrope, I'm afraid that your arguments just don't hold the water.

Just how high level ensures that the player has actually learned to play? The first quests and missions on the starters island are so quick and rushed that it absolutely does not prepare new players (without earlier experience in Chapter 1) for teamwork, for rational use of their skills, and for finding their playing style. At least, in Prophecies the slow progression over the levels was giving us the time to adapt better to the our skills. Getting to L20 after a dozen mostly Fed-ex quests is NOT better. Yeah, they are level 20, but this does not say a thing about their skills! In my opinion, a worthless L20 player is much more irritating than a L8-11 player in the high skill areas, and they only contribute to the time you lose on a failed mission. At least, with low level characters you have a more fair estimate of their skills.

Besides, if you haven't noticed, the OP was about grinding through all obligatory Factions primary quests and missions with your 2nd, 3rd, 4th, character, not with the very first one.

And yes, I hate locked gates too, I am one of those many people who are curious and like exploration.

mtm · May 12, 2006, 11:11 AM // 11:11

What's the "late game pvp" that you wanna get to? And what do you mean by "it takes so long"? How long does it take to complete Cantha with a brand new char? 1-3 weeks depending on how much you play, no?

bilateralrope · May 12, 2006, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alya

Bilateralrope, I'm afraid that your arguments just don't hold the water.

Just how high level ensures that the player has actually learned to play?

It doesn't much to do about skill. But lacking attribute points makes their character weaker no matter how much skill they have. At level 17 they will only have 155 if they have done both attribute points, 45 less than a level 20, which means they will have to reduce their attributes by at least 3 levels (split accross where they were spent). While that may not make much of a difference, having 60 less hp does make quite a difference when added to the lower attributes.

Quote:

You'll still find those people even with the gates though. Stupid people are just stupid, and no matter how you lock something up they will get by anyways. It just hurts the explorers. I for one am dreading doing every single quest for all 8 of my characters.

We shall see how many get through in the comming months. Vizunah Square looks like it will force teamwork upon people

Still, I doubt ANET will do anything anyway. Look at how many people want the droks run killed because it makes the yaks and ascalon arenas unplayable for new players (who can't afford a droks run and droks armor) which the arenas seem intended for. Yet ANET has done nothing about it, except a few tweaks which caused the runners to adapt. Even now when they can block it the same way as is done in factions, it remains open.

axe · May 12, 2006, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Still, I doubt ANET will do anything anyway. Look at how many people want the droks run killed because it makes the yaks and ascalon arenas unplayable for new players (who can't afford a droks run and droks armor) which the arenas seem intended for. Yet ANET has done nothing about it, except a few tweaks which caused the runners to adapt. Even now when they can block it the same way as is done in factions, it remains open.

The Arena situations have nothing to do with the Droks run, a very simple level requirement on armor (like we have on weapons and offhands) would make the arena situation completely better. I like prophecies better because it was more adaptable to everyones own ideas on how to play the game. I personally dont even like to know the story about either campaign, I just want to get playing the game and get to the more interesting parts of the game (for me) that usually means capping new elites that I want to use on my characters. In order to do that I have to beat every mission and primary quest (which are tedious back and forth treks through an area that I have explored 10 times over on 1 character) And I dont even know when Im going to find a locked down border, I just keep exploring and "oh good theres a zone, I dont have to fight through all this again, oh its locked" that was a "feature" of Guild Wars when it was released, they advertised that you wouldnt have to walk from place to place if youve already been, you could just map there. Well now its changed and I dont like it.

This locking of zones takes away from the replay value of the game which I think replay value is FAR more important than stopping some runners. I just want to capture some Elites and play PVP with them, I bought the game for the skills not the content (the content is an added bonus, but in this case it limits me from playing the game how I want to play it)

My thing is this, let people play the game how they want to play it. The only exception to this rule is that some people want to play the low level arenas and they cant play in a fair environment, because other people who are playing the game how they like (beating up on players with poor equipment) are effecting other people. For the most part what I do in the game has no effect on other players and vice versa. The only problem I see is bringing Elites and unbalanced armor into the low level arenas, for that I think they should have some difficulty options that you can choose when playing in those arenas (some people actually like to fight agains and win against all the Droks clad hacks out there)

Winterclaw · May 12, 2006, 12:49 PM // 12:49

I agree with rope. It improves the game and makes sure everyone is on the same page. I tried to do the second mission last night with 5/6 people at 13 or lower, including 3 lvl 11-12 assassins. It was not pretty. Assuming you can get all 13 missions done in 30 minutes apiece on average, that's a total of 7.5 hours in a mission. Add in maybe 4-7 hours to get to level 20, it's possible to finish factions in under 20 hours without rushing. That's not a lot.

Here's the thing with rushing: in the original, it is a reasonable option only because the first game is so bloody tedious.

led-zep · May 12, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

We shall see how many get through in the comming months. Vizunah Square looks like it will force teamwork upon people

it wont, decided to do it late last night with hench team as noone was on and the other side also had only 2 real players and hench. minion mastered through it and didnt die once, had to res a couple of hench though but still no probs.

oh and as for the elitism already instilled that early in the game, noone wants under level 20's, nice that a level 14 nec can walk it though.

BahamutKaiser · May 12, 2006, 01:09 PM // 13:09

I don't mind it at all, there isn't much start game material to skip with factions, it was designed with the express purpose for high level characters to travel over and have plenty to do, which is why the start game material takes you from lvl 1 to lvl 20 before you get to your third mission.

There isn't much start game material to skip, it is all end game, and although you may hate actually playing through this game, it is made very well and I like it.

Yes newbs can drudge through even hard missions, but it ensures that alot of players are getting some experience in the gameplay rather than knowing your teammates came from beacon perch, and don't have the patience or dedication to play through the game (and likely your current objective...). Frankly I perfer this, players who don't want to play the game have PvP, the whole point of PvE players is to play the PvE content, and I like it, so I can't agree with your position.

Tarun · May 12, 2006, 02:02 PM // 14:02

I agree that the locked gates really ruined Factions. So much for free exploration huh? I agree that you shouldn't have to play all of your characters through, it's redundant. Perhaps they should make gate locks account based instead.

Symeon · May 12, 2006, 02:34 PM // 14:34

This forum is for suggestions, not simply talking about things you don't like and offering no solutions. I see no clear suggestions in the OP of this thread. I could move this thread to Riverside Inn, but there have been several other threads talking about these same subjects.

Closed.

If you are willing to offer any suggestions in this by editing the OP, then PM me and I'll consider re-opening this thread.